(01:48:57 ®) Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
Welcome to the Discussion. The topic tonight is "What makes a good Dom/me?" and Hobbes will be leading the discussion. Please keep Yyour greetings and non-class related convos to PM so as not to interrupt. ~Thank Yyou A/all

(01:48:58) Lord Hawk says to toy (f): well hello....aren't you adorable..grins..

(01:49:00) SH {madison} says to toy (f): good evening. ~s~

(01:49:03 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to everyone: ~slips back to my pillow...curls around angel and muse~...who's been bad?

(01:49:11 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to Lord Hawk: Good evening Sir...*s*

(01:49:15) Hobbes says to everyone:
Shall we begin?...

(01:49:20 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to SH {madison}: Greetings Sir...*s*

(01:49:27) SH {madison} says to Wraith: as well as can be expected my friend..and You and Yours?

(01:49:35) warm woman says to everyone: listens

(01:49:43) Hobbes says to everyone:
Welcome to Discussion night at The Edge. For any who do not know me, my name is Hobbes and I will, for better or worse, be serving as the moderator of the discussion this evening.

(01:49:48) SH {madison} says to ~angel~: ahhh the demure one..hello angel. ~s~

(01:50:06) Hobbes says to everyone:
As the evening is meant to be a discussion rather than a lecture, audience participation is key. Consequently, I will be not merely encouraging comments but specifically inviting them. In order to assure our discussion goes smoothly, I would ask a few things of you.

(01:50:20) SH {madison} says to ~angel~: hey andi

(01:50:41) Hobbes says to everyone:
First, during the discussion period I would ask that greetings, flames, scening and all various and sundry comments be kept in pm in order to avoid an endless parade of disjointed prose.

(01:50:46 ®) Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
Welcome to the Discussion. The topic tonight is "What makes a good Dom/me?" and Hobbes will be leading the discussion. Please keep Yyour greetings and non-class related convos to PM so as not to interrupt. ~Thank Yyou A/all

(01:51:09) Hobbes says to everyone:
Second, and just as important or perhaps more so, please remember that this is your discussion group; my task is to try to encourage the exchange of ideas. Please feel free to share your thoughts and make this evening a success.

(01:51:16 ®) Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
what He said *l* looking to Hobbes

(01:51:42) Hobbes says to tyme:
..~winks~...

(01:51:48) Hobbes says to everyone:
Finally, you’re here not merely to talk with one another but to have fun. I’ll do my best to make sure it’s a good experience all around.

(01:52:18) Hobbes says to everyone:
Our topic for discussion this evening is “What Makes a Good Dom/me?” The foundation for our discussion was provided very nicely by Havoc on Thursday evening, providing an overview of some of the traits that are exhibited or should be exhibited by a ‘good’ Dom/me.

(01:52:52) Hobbes says to everyone:
At the conclusion of our discussion last week, we seemed to agree that ‘BDSM’ covers such a broad set of practices and activities that its definition was highly personal. I was reminded of Justice Potter Stewart’s famous opinion on pornography which may be paraphrased as “I may not be able to explain what it is exactly, but I know it when I see it”…..

(01:53:27) Hobbes says to everyone:
Our first question tonight follows that same road. Is it practical or possible to have a single standard that defines a ‘good’ dominant? Or is ‘good’ in this case something necessarily subjective, something best defined by those within the relationship?

(01:54:19 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to everyone:
I think *good* is a relative term to hold all the Dominants that are..Hmmm..successful at the Job

(01:55:09) Senoj says to Hobbes:
Since we can clearly point to things that make a bad dominant, abusive, selfish, etc. Then some basic traits should be common to all 'good' dominants

(01:55:58) Hobbes says to Wraith:
.....but might someone not prefer brutal?...or selfish?...

(01:56:42 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to everyone: Aye and many do in fact like the rough stuff...and I believe Selfish..to a point..is a good trait in a Dominant

(01:56:50) ~angel~ says to Hobbes: hurt not harm...to me there is a difference...brutal and abusive would be two different things

(01:57:20) Hobbes says to ~angel~: ..how so, angel?...

(01:57:22) Senoj says to everyone:
what it boils down to is a dominant has to take the time to comprehend what their submissive needs and desires, then give it o them in such a way that meets the dominant's needs.

(01:57:32 Signon) ::::: babysoft ::::: enters The Edge

(01:57:57) Hobbes says to Senoj:
..then a good dominant is defined by the particular submissive?...

(01:58:12 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to ~angel~:
it depends on your definition of brutal I suppose..for some taking out a sliver can be brutal..for others it's whips and chains and a bit of blood letting

(01:59:02) ~angel~ says to Hobbes: you can be brutal yet still care about the emotional and physical well being of the sub...abusive to me means you don't care what happens to them as long as you get all your desires met

(01:59:45 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
i, if i might throw a sub opinion out here, if in the relationship between Dom/me and sub, there is brutal and selfish and it is their choice, but a generally brutal Dom/me that is that way period with all He/She come into contact with.... that would not be so accepted by most, i don't think..... what ones have in their personal interaction and how they behave in general i would hope would be different, as i don't sub to anyone, why would a Dom/me be Dominant to all?

(01:59:47) ~angel~ says to Wraith: that's why I think brutal and abusive are two different things.....

(01:59:54) Senoj says to everyone:
I think I need to define some things first. By abusive I mean people like the wife beaters. Rough may entail similar actions, but to a different end.

(02:00:15) Senoj says to everyone:
~points to angel~ that's it exactly

(02:01:23) Hobbes says to tyme:
..so...you're saying, I think, that there are limits to what a Dom/me's reach should be...

(02:01:43 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to ~angel~:
A Master might have a girl that gets off on public humiliation..it would appear to anyone that He is being abusive to her...and to get the desired effect He would HAVE to be that way.....this Role of Dominant has many subheadings and quirks....depending on the subbie We are Handling

(02:02:52) Hobbes says to Wraith:
...so a good Dom/me is then defined by the submissive...~s~...for it is in meeting his or her needs that 'good' attaches...

(02:03:13 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
i think what a Dom/me does in a relationship and their general demeanor are different, so Your question as You posed it, was it in relation to the Dom/me in the relationship with a sub or their behavior in general?

(02:03:26) ~angel~says to Wraith: it boils down then to consent at least in D/s....but that master still cares about her emotional and physical well being.....

(02:03:30) Senoj says to Wraith:
that is true, but the point angel is making is that if it is the Sub's desire to be publicly humiliated, then that's ok. But if its not but happens regardless of what the sub desires then that is abuse. Its bad M'Kay.

(02:03:32) warm woman says to Hobbes: a good Dom for tyme may not be a good Dom for me *s*

(02:04:08 ®) Wraith's tyme says to warm woman:
exactly *s*

(02:04:13) Hobbes says to warm woman: Exactly so. ~s~

(02:04:53) Hobbes says to everyone:
Next question…many of the writings that speak of a ‘good’ dominant focus on personality. For example, a good dominant is compassionate. A good dominant is understanding. A good dominant communicates well…exercises self-control….is loving and devoted. How do these traits differ from those of a ‘good’ submissive? Or are good dominants just good people, men and women who demonstrate qualities which give a person the character, personality and skills to be good at anything he or she does?

(02:05:22 ®) ~andrea gail~says to ~angel~: if He/She doesn't then are They really a Dom/me at all?

(02:05:27 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Hobbes:
Hmmmm..actually I'm more thinking that a *good* Dominant..is One who is flexible in the role and can use Their Imagination and experience to tailor the power exchange to whichever sub They choose to handle....which is where it becomes known that not all Dominants are right for all subs...which is why...Wwe communicate adnausemum about likes and dislikes

(02:05:40) ~angel~ says to andrea gail: doesn't what?

(02:05:44 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes: but i was referring in my original post to a Dominants *public* behaviour, not necessarily all They do with one they have negotiated with privately

(02:05:44) warm woman says to Hobbes: I think that if someone is a good person those good qualities will extend to being a Dom

(02:05:51) Senoj says to everyone:
I think it can be boiled down to a simple statement. A good dominant cares about his submissive and puts forth the effort to understand him/her. Bad dominants only care about themselves no mater how much harm is done to the sub physically, mentally, and/or emotionally.

(02:06:04 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to ~angel~: respect your wishes or safety

(02:06:07) warm woman says to Hobbes: if he's just a wife beater who uses the guise of a Dom to beat women, then he'd be a bad one

(02:07:19) Hobbes says to Senoj:
..you foreshadow something..the difference between dominant and domineering...which we will discuss shortly...

(02:07:58) Senoj says to Hobbes:
figures... this is a favorite rant... uh I mean topic of mine

(02:08:04) ~angel~ says to andrea gail: wishes is subjective....safety...for me...is not....I do many things at times that Id really rather say 'fuck you' to..-l-...there in lies the issue of trust...to comprise my safety or mental wellbeing on something that is known to be a hard limit.....then no they aren't...at least in my mind

(02:08:30) Hobbes says to Senoj:
...~s~..and an important distinction...that ties to what angel said earlier...

(02:08:47 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to ~angel~: ~nods~...mine too

(02:09:21 Signoff) Lord Hawk leaves The Edge

(02:09:51 ®) Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
and a good submissive will, or to my thinking, should have the same basic qualities, we all want a loving, compassionate, honest and trustworthy partner..... and should be one as well.... but being a Dom/me shouldn't give license to be a tyrant to all, perhaps in a scene He/She wants to do, but i wouldn't think to all, just as the sub, to my thinking, shouldn't be a submissive to all, i may be a sub, by not to just anyone with a capped name

(02:10:34) warm woman says to Hobbes: I've known some Doms who get so full of themselves and their "years of experience" they expect to be treated like god by every woman -- I think it's more realistic to treat everyone courteously from the beginning and wait for the power exchange if indeed it ever gets to that point

(02:10:35) ~angel~ says to Wraith: and I agree with you on what a 'good' dominant is

(02:11:11 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to ~angel~: Blinks...you do ?..agree with Me...I mean ??

(02:11:25) ~angel~ says to tyme: agrees to that too.....

(02:11:56) ~angel~says to Wraith: yeah -g- I'm not gonna be contrary .....just yet -l-

(02:12:14 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to ~angel~:
Hope springs eternal..Whew!!

(02:12:16) Hobbes says to Wraith:
let's go with what you described then...a good dominant is capable of handling different people different ways...is creative..imaginative..yes?...

(02:12:51 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Hobbes: Pretty much have to be unless They never have but one subbie all Their lives

(02:13:43) Hobbes says to Wraith:
A follow up then...some argue that a ‘good’ dominant is more than a collection of behaviors. One submissive, when asked what makes a good dominant, offered the following: 'A good dominant does not have to blow His own trumpet – he just “IS”. He doesn’t have to demand respect, He gets that anyway, He doesn’t have to announce to the world who He is, because His reputation and the respect of His peers precede Him.' Can someone be naturally, transparently and obviously dominant? Does this suggest that there are levels of dominance, some perhaps with natural roots and others learned?

(02:14:17) Senoj says to Hobbes:
that's useful but I don't think its at the core of being good or not. It does influence how skillful they are

(02:15:19) Hobbes says to Senoj:
..isn't a skilful Dom/me necessarily a 'good' Dom/me?...

(02:15:25) warm woman says to Hobbes: that can be dangerous at times -- I've known a few Doms from my local scene who are high in the ranks yet they are not, in my opinion ( and in others' I've found) good Dons

(02:15:44) Senoj says to Hobbes: Hell no. See previous rant about caring about the sub.

(02:16:02 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Hobbes:
I think that certain leadership traits are included in all our makeups..some simply are more adept at displaying them and have the Desire to use them....thus would be the natural leader that exudes confidence to the point where others wish to do what They tell them to

(02:16:03) Hobbes says to warm woman:
Where was the disconnect, ww?...

(02:16:27) warm woman says to Hobbes: and no skillful and good are not necessarily mutually exclusive -- I've played with a skillful Dom -- he did it all right down to the after care -- but outside of the dungeon he wasn't a nice man

(02:16:39) Hobbes says to Senoj:
Perhaps we differ in defining skillful. ~s~

(02:17:14) Senoj says to warm woman: agree with you. Seems the goups local to me are overrun with less than stellar people as leaders. Several of the more serious of us packed up our toys and left en masse

(02:17:40) Hobbes says to warm woman:
ahhh...but the question, ww, is not what makes a good person...it is what makes a good Dom/me..does outside of the dungeon matter?...

(02:17:50) warm woman says to Hobbes: the one is so called skilled with a bullwhip but others who know how to use a single tail have observed him and quietly whispered to me "he's going to hurt someone doing it like that"

(02:18:04 Signon) redend(Mistress Carol)(lady april) enters The Edge

(02:18:38) warm woman says to Hobbes: what made him a mean man was that he insisted he and I retain our respective roles as Dom and sub even though we weren't in a scene much less a relationship

(02:18:41) Hobbes says to warm woman: ..we speak of a skillful Dom/me...not a Dom/me skilled in particular acts...

(02:18:57) Senoj says to Hobbes:
I define skillful as having the skills to use a wide range of techniques and a knowledge of when to apply them.

(02:19:42) Hobbes says to warm woman: thus the definition is important..is a skillful Dom/me simply someone who can wiled a whip appropriately?..or, as Wraith has suggested, it is something more...

(02:20:11) warm woman says to Hobbes: definitely something more -- has to be a well rounded package

(02:20:39 Signon) ::::: babysoft ::::: enters The Edge

(02:21:17) Hobbes says to Senoj:
...Does a 'good' Dom/me have the skills to use a wide range of techniques and a knowledge of when to apply them?

(02:22:41) Senoj says to Hobbes:
First instinct is to say yes, but what about he new Dom that is just getting started? He may have all the right personality traits to make him good, but still learning the skills. Is is a good Dom?

(02:22:57 Signon) Neptune enters The Edge

(02:23:04 Signon) *Badboy* {c}enters The Edge

(02:23:13) *Badboy* {c}says to everyone: hey *S*

(02:23:44 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Senoj:
He would be a Newbie Dom...and other Dominants will endeavour to teach Him the skills and techniques He will need

(02:24:49 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Senoj:
None of Uus wants to see any of Uus fail as Dominant or submissive..it's a Wwe take care of Oour own kinda thing

(02:25:09) Hobbes says to everyone:
Yet another question…in the course of his lesson, Havoc referred to an important distinction between being dominant and domineering. How do we separate the two? Might be difference be in the focus of an individual? It has been said that a domineering person’s focus is inward, concentrating on the importance of “being in charge”. Perhaps ‘good’ dominants focus outward, reacting and responding to their partner, guiding behavior and actions in a way intended to create mutual enjoyment….

(02:25:38) Hobbes says to Senoj:
Floor open for ranting, Sir...~s~..

(02:26:56) Senoj says to Wraith:
Domineering - inclined to rule arbitrarily or despotically; overbearing; tyrannical:

(02:27:21) Senoj says to Hobbes: I think that sums it up ~S~

(02:27:59) Hobbes says to Senoj: Do you?...~s~...so the difference is acting arbitrarily?...

(02:28:08 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to everyone:
A Domineering Dominant would wish to control every aspect of Their subs life..i.e......you can't talk to these people...you can't drive that kind of car...you can't work at that kind of job.....a Dominant Dominant can take off the Boss hat and just be in a relationship with their sub...which actually is where much of the time in a D/s relationship is spent..not even the Great Wraith can flog a girls hide 24/7

(02:28:17) Senoj says to everyone:
Being dominant is simply exerting control. How you wield that control makes all the difference.

(02:28:35) Neptune says to Hobbes: I don't see a desire to be in charge and domineering as one in the same...being in charge can be leadership which is also outward focused

(02:28:48) Hobbes says to Wraith:
..so the span of control is the difference?...

(02:28:50) ~angel~ says to Wraith: You can't??...-is disillusioned now

(02:29:01) warm woman says to everyone: not to mention despotically and tyrannical

(02:29:18) ~angel~ says to Hobbes: unless micro managing was the negotiated kink -l-

(02:29:21 ®) Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
agrees with Wraith, Neptune and Senoj *s*

(02:29:30) toy (f) says to Wraith:
a domineering person... does not necessarily have to be a Dominant....

(02:29:43 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to ~angel~: heartbroken even..*nods*

(02:29:47) warm woman says to Wraith: and yet actually for many slaves, they want their Master to control every aspect of their life and yet they are not seen as domineering --

(02:30:03 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to toy (f): good point

(02:30:14 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Hobbes:
I'm thinking the level of control is different..also it is a matter of choice for the Dominant to be this way..where as a Domineering personality is like that all the time

(02:30:26) ~angel~ says to toy (f): puts my mother up as exhibit A on that comment -l-

(02:30:39) Senoj says to warm woman:
They generally aren't domineering because they try to do what's best for the submissive. A domineering dominant would give a damn

(02:30:46) Neptune says to ~angel~: micro managing is a sign of uncertainty not to mention incompetence

(02:30:47 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to toy (f): Oh I know..I got an Ex wife..*W*

(02:30:57) warm woman says to Senoj: yes

(02:31:11 ®) Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~: micro managing can be a kink and quite acceptable to some....but that is different from the Dom that isolates by using His control i think

(02:31:19) toy (f) says to Senoj:
a domineering dominant would give a damn?

(02:31:19) warm woman says to Neptune: *laughs* like my micro managing boss

(02:31:26 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to warm woman:
That's true...but I was referring to submissives only and not slaves...who run under a different set of rules

(02:31:41) Hobbes says to Senoj:
...a domineering dominant would not give a damn..per your definitions...

(02:31:42) Senoj says to tyme: agrees with tyme

(02:31:48 ®) Wraith's tyme says to warm woman:
are you talking about a slave?

(02:31:55) Senoj says to toy (f):
would not.... sorry typo

(02:31:58) warm woman says to Wraith: oh even some slaves want that level of control -- after all slave and sub are mere labels

(02:32:03) ~angel~ says to Neptune: ehh....I'm not so sure....if it is the negotiated between the two it may be what they both desire...again..negotiation, well-being and communication are what will be the difference

(02:32:08 Signon) ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle} enters The Edge

(02:32:11) warm woman says to Wraith: they can't wholly define the kind of relationship one experiences

(02:32:17) Neptune says to warm woman: we've all had those

(02:32:28) warm woman says to Wraith: I mean even some subs

(02:32:37) ~angel~ says to tyme: -l- that's why I said unless its the negotiated kink....

(02:32:46 Signon) **LUCIFER**{LR} enters The Edge

(02:32:51) ~angel~ says to tyme: isolation to control is an abusive trait

(02:32:57 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to warm woman:
Grinz..ketchup and mustard are also mere labels..but quite different actually

(02:33:41) **LUCIFER**{LR} says to everyone: *Greetings To A/all..........

(02:33:45 ®) Wraith's tyme says to warm woman:
i disagree with you, i am not a slave, period and any slave will tell you, they are not a submissive

(02:33:51) ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle} says to everyone: Evening E/everyone

(02:33:58) Neptune says to ~angel~: *nods* different strokes for different folks...personally I prefer guidance and principals over complex rules and instructions

(02:34:03) Senoj says to Wraith:
perhaps I have a slightly different viewpoint on some of this as I am drawn to slaves more often than subs

(02:34:05) warm woman says to Wraith: oh lord You did not just equate mustard and ketchup with subs and slaves? *L*

(02:34:29) ~angel~ says to tyme: are we mustard or ketchup?-g-

(02:34:34) warm woman says to tyme: if I were to compare myself to you -- you are more on a slave level than I am

(02:34:39) Hobbes says to everyone:
Let’s turn our discussion on it’s head for a moment. We’ve spoken of the traits and behaviors that help us identify a ‘good’ dominant. Kind, confident, and well-rounded, we’re basically Boy Scouts with merit badges in various kinks…~g~… but how do we define or identify or recognize a bad Dom/me? What mixture of flaws and shortcomings make you say, ‘dear God, please let him/her go away and bother someone else…

(02:34:48 ®) Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
exactly *s*

(02:35:20) Neptune says to ~angel~: doesn't do ketchup...Ever!

(02:36:58) warm woman says to tyme: see it's all subjective *s*

(02:37:02 Signon) Dark Eyes enters The Edge

(02:37:44) ~angel~ says to Hobbes:
demanding submission when its not been agreed upon...i.e..."We are equals, until we decide we aren't" is a lost concept to them

(02:38:02) Senoj says to everyone:
How about a bad dominant has a lack of respect for everyone. He's the guy most likely to hit on every submissive whether she is taken or not.

(02:38:12 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to everyone: ~pops something sugar free in my mouth....quickly~

(02:38:30) ~angel~ says to warm woman: I disagree....like tyme, I will never be a slave....there is a difference, one is not better than the other but there is a difference

(02:38:45) Hobbes says to ~angel~: ..I count that as arrogance...I'm capped..I'm here..why the fuck aren't you on your knees?...~s~...

(02:39:19) toy (f) says to Hobbes:
i think an example of a "bad Dom".. is the 'know it all Dom'... the one who is not open to learning.....thinks there is nothing left to learn... thinks he has all the answers

(02:39:28) ~angel~ says to Hobbes: but some arrogance is ok....this is almost like....illusions of grandeur..-l-...

(02:39:47) ~angel~ says to toy (f): those are dangerous

(02:39:50 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
a bad Dom/me to me is a tyrant, i mean in general terms, treats all as though they own them, are better than, and there are those other bad Dom/mes that are insecure and depressed and so they take to a dungeon or bdsm chat room to compensate for their lack of control and their miserable lives.... bad Dom/me *s*

(02:39:52) Hobbes says to Senoj: ..it's someone who doesn't respect boundaries or convention, then?...

(02:39:57) Senoj says to everyone: I believe the word you are looking for is Hubris

(02:40:01) toy (f) says to ~angel~:
agreed...

(02:40:09) Neptune says to toy (f): *lol* that's a bad trait in anyone

(02:40:52) toy (f) says to Neptune:
i agree... but more so in a Dominant i think...

(02:41:00) Hobbes says to tyme:
An excellent point tyme...~s~...

(02:41:18) Senoj says to Hobbes: failure to respect boundaries, conventions, people sub or dom... etc.

(02:41:25 Signon) ~casia~ enters The Edge

(02:42:17) ~casia~ says to *Badboy* {c}:
~slides quietly to Your feet to catch up on the discussion, curls up~

(02:42:49 ®) Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
thank you *s*

(02:43:00) Hobbes says to everyone:
One last question…does a ‘good’ vt dominant need a different skill set than a good rt dominant? Does the nature of writing as opposed to activity, the gap between wordplay and sensation play, allow one to be a ‘good’ dominant in one realm and a ‘bad’ dominant in the other?

(02:43:12) Senoj says to everyone: one definition of hubris is "overbearing pride or presumption" I believe that fits what we are discussing

(02:44:20) ~casia~ says to Hobbes:
i think a 'good' vt dominant does not necessarily make a 'good' rt dominant.....it is one thing to be so on screen, quite another to be the same way when you actually have to face that person, Sir

(02:44:30) ~angel~ says to Hobbes:
mmm...might be easier to hide longer in vt...but if you suck rt...ya prolly are gonna suck vt....because this for most goes beyond the 'play' or scenes...its mental

(02:45:03) ~angel~ says to Hobbes: eerr....reverse the rt /vt in that statement

(02:45:22 ®) Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
i knew what you meant *w* =

(02:45:26) Hobbes says to ~angel~: ...~g~..consider them reversed....

(02:45:39 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to everyone:
I actually found it somewhat easy to learn enough to be a decent v/t Dom...when I had My pet move to Me and started a r/t D/s relationship...was wayyy different set of parameters.....so although some of the skills I learned online were handy..there were many more that I needed to learn and still am learning

(02:45:48) ~angel~ says to tyme: -l- that's good...cuz i reread that and thought...what the fuck -l-

(02:46:29) Hobbes says to Wraith: ..different but complimentary skill sets, yes?...

(02:47:02) Senoj says to everyone:
vt requires a skill level with descriptive text that is not required in r/t. depending on the kink that skill may be useful in r/t but is not necessary. I have also found that thinking through the realism, which gets a huge boost from having done it r/t, improves a scene tremendously. So v/t benefits from r/t experience. The other direction is less so but still a benefit from experiencing more D/s

(02:47:03 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Hobbes:
complimentary to a point...physics comes into play a lot more in r/t than in v/t

(02:48:03) warm woman says to everyone: yeah taking a cane online is nothing like taking it for real

(02:48:28) Hobbes says to everyone: Our hour comes to a close...I thank all of your for your participation and contributions...I hope you found the time interesting..please enjoy your evening...~s~...

(02:48:52 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Hobbes:
in v/t I am frickin superman and I can lift up a subbie and perch her on the tip of My tongue...imagine My surprise the first time I tried that in r/t and landed flat on My ass..*G*

(02:49:15) Senoj says to Wraith: ROTFLMFAO

(02:49:17) ~angel~ says to Wraith: but...did you drop the sub on her head?-l-

(02:49:35 ®) Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
points to the scar *w*

(02:49:39 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to ~angel~:
Nope onto the bed..safety first you know..*W*

(02:49:52) Hobbes says to Wraith: ..the joy of physics...~g~..I'd have sworn you could do it too...

(02:50:02) ~angel~ says to tyme: -l- shoulda known

(02:50:09 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Wraith:
j/k..... sorry Sir, couldn't resist that opening *w*

(02:50:21 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Hobbes:
It was the advanced class in humility..*L*

(02:50:55) ~angel~ says to tyme: and..I'd say physics sucks...but I swear to god someones got like esp when I say that.....and I'd get thumped in a not fun way -l-

(02:51:09 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Hobbes:
which would probably also be a good trait in a good Dominant..to be able to even exist in both the v/t and r/t world

(02:51:28 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
thank You Sir for leading the last two discussions, i hope You will consider leading more when time permits, You are a magnificent Discussion Master *s*

(02:51:51) Hobbes says to Wraith: I think it important..it provides that well-rounded background referred to previously...

(02:51:52) Neptune says to ~angel~: not thumping *lol* but likes physics

(02:52:11) Senoj says to Wraith: your experience is interesting. I came from a couple years experience r/t before finding anything v/t.

(02:52:13 ®) Wraith {tyme} says to Hobbes: Nicely done Brother..thank You as always for Your time and Intelligent handling of the Discussion

(02:52:21 ®) ‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
You really are ....*hugs* thank You Sir ..*s*

(02:52:34) Senoj says to Hobbes: echoing tyme. Yes that was very well done

(02:52:43) Hobbes says to tyme: Many thanks...I appreciate the opportunity....~s~...

(02:52:47) warm woman says to Hobbes: thanks Sir *s*

(02:53:18) Hobbes says to Wraith: Thank you kindly...~s~...I enjoyed it much...

(02:53:24 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Senoj:
You and i are the same, rt first and then the discovery of vt.... but so many, more today i think , it is vt first and then Tthey may venture into rt

(02:53:28) ~angel~ says to Neptune: you thump..and I'd just hafta kick you in the shins anyway -l-

(02:53:45) Hobbes says to ‡ dark muse ‡: ...thank you, lovely...~s~..

(02:53:48 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Senoj:
I tried out quite a few other life choices before I ended up a Cap Creature in a chatroom

(02:54:00 ®) ~andrea gail~ says to Hobbes: Great job Sir....as usual...*s*

(02:54:21) Hobbes says to andrea gail: thank much, andi...~s~..

(02:54:23) ~casia~says to Hobbes:
sorry i missed the bulk of it, Sir....~hugs~

(02:54:41) Hobbes says to Senoj: ...thanks much...~s~...

(02:54:58) Neptune says to ~angel~: *lol* do sharks have shins?

(02:55:18 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to ~casia~:
yeah you missed the part where Wwe were discussing what makes casia a good subbie..*G*

(02:55:25) Hobbes says to ~casia~: Not a problem, pretty...there's a rumor you know how to find a good Dom anyway...~wink~...

(02:55:28) ~angel~ says to Neptune: ponders-...k..in your case...fins -g-

(02:55:50) *Badboy* {c}says to Wraith:
oooo I missed that part too...what was the consensus? *L*

(02:56:04) ~casia~says to Wraith:
~laffs~....gawds, i hope no one took notes on that section, i could get a lot of missives in trouble, Sir!

(02:56:38) ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle} says to Hobbes: walked in at the end..but very good discussion....salute..

(02:56:44 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to *Badboy* {c}:
I believe it was You that the consensus decided was what made casia a good subbie..*W*

(02:56:47) ~casia~says to Hobbes:
~beams and nuzzles the knee i'm curled against~....hmmmm....that is another debate, Sir.....i'm not really sure who found who.....~winks~

(02:56:49) Senoj says to everyone: A good topic one day might be how to avoid the bad doms

(02:56:58) Hobbes says to ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle}: Thank you for your kind words...~s~...

(02:57:18) ~casia~says to ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle}:
~smiles warmly~.....good evening, Sir.....`leans to softly brush Your cheek with a kiss~

(02:57:25) *Badboy* {c} says to Wraith:
*chuckles* actually I think she'd agree with that *G*

(02:57:44 ®) Wraith {tyme}says to Senoj:
like a Dom/me detector that subs wear in their undies

(02:57:53) ~EASYRIDER~ {michelle} says to ~angel~: evening lil beauty....smiles as I feel your warm lips brush My cheek...

(02:58:04) ~casia~ says to Senoj:
i coulda used that class about a year ago, Sir.....~sighs~.....it is soooo much more difficult online

(02:58:14) ~angel~ says to everyone: holy hell...I kissed somebody??-l-

(02:58:32 ®) Wraith's tyme says to Senoj:
i think some of those hints were in Havoc's lecture last Thursday, though i full *beware of* night might be good, but i would hope the other half of that night would be what to watch out for with regards to a bad submissive, a dangerous one, or an abused person who just says they are submissive to cover it up