Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
Welcome to the Discussion. For those that missed the lecture portion the topic tonight is "Respect of the collar by Dom/mes and submissives and others that frequent BDSM chat rooms" and i will be leading the discussion. Please keep Yyour greetings and non-discussion related convos to PM so as not to interrupt. The discussion will be posted to the UofN link for reading.~Thank Yyou A/all .....will wait for all the chatter to calm...

Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
First, are there any general questions or comments on the topic : Respect of the collar by Dom/mes and submissives and others that frequent BDSM chat rooms

Asterix says to tyme:
Do you mean to say .. don’t tempt one who is collared ? or has one collared another ?

Wraith{tyme}says to ~angel~:
Tosses an eraser at you..hush up girl unless yer discussin

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
the topic focused on respecting the collar and in a more general sense, this BDSM way and customs

~angel~ says to Wraith:
ducks -

Asterix says to tyme:
OK ...

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
it could certainly mean, is it proper to temp , tease or focus attentions on a collared sub or on a Dom that holds a collar

Wraith{tyme}says to tyme:
I think we need to differentiate between harmless flirting with collared Oones and the all out try to get into a collared ones pants

~lolli~Owned by HB says to Wraith:
Or all out cybering/playing with a collared one or Dom/me that has a collared one.

Wraith's tyme says to Wraith:
and how one would know the difference between who is and isn't free to play would be to ask

Wraith{tyme}says to ~lolli~:
Aye that too..in the case where such play is not agreed to beforehand by both people in the collar

~lolli~Owned by HB says to Wraith:
Sometimes, take mine for instance, my relationship is not just with HB it is with HB and His wife, there are three parties involved.

Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
does anyone here think it is okay for all Dom/mes to play with whoever, whenever they like and on the flip side that all subs are forbidden such freedom?

Wraith{tyme}says to ~lolli~:
cozy..and I am certain all the parameters of that relationship were discussed before it happened right ?

The BodyGuard says to tyme:
I don’t

~lolli~ Owned by HB says to Wraith:
I had believed so.

Asterix says to tyme:
It’s up to the agreement between the two ... If that’s what they want ... if they don’t want it then it’s not OK

~angel~ says to tyme:
I think...that that's where getting to know who's collar your taking comes into play....it really doesn’t matter what I think is right or wrong in someone’s relationship...IF...that is the terms they agreed to

Wraith's tyme says to The BodyGuard:
would You say that it is an individual Ccouples choice then as to what their guidelines are?

Wraith{tyme}says to everyone:
and there are the occasions when for One to play and one to not is part of the agreement in order to fulfill a kink

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to tyme:
i agree with Asterix.....it has to be a mutual decision...

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to everyone:
Can O/one expect to be the only one in their individual life... I guess my question is... in BDSM... it is okay to expect loyalty... and no cheating from the partner....

The BodyGuard says to tyme:
In my opinion its the choice of the couple....my choice is I’m true to Brenda she’s my only one and I’m her only one.....we are a couple

~angel~ says to ~ L / lyrindia ~:
define cheating by your definition

Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
and there are so many different arrangements out there, almost as many as there are Ccouples i think too

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
very good point *s* and thank You for voicing it

Wraith{tyme}says to ~ L / lyrindia ~:
loyalty is paramount for an online relationship just as a real-time one..cheating is cheating no matter the venue

~angel~ says to tyme:
if you wouldn’t marry someone two weeks after knowing them..why would you take their collar...then complain it wasn’t what you thought it'd be...that one always did confound me

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to Wraith:
*nods*... thanks... I thought so... thus ... shrugs... smiles...

~lolli~Owned by HB says to Wraith:
Can the party that cheated be the only one to blame if the party that they cheated with at no time voiced any concerns or questioned what the arrangement may or may not be?

Wraith's tyme says to ~ L / lyrindia ~:
welcome and yes i do think so, just as i see nothing wrong with fully open relationships if a Ccouple, BDSM based prefers closed, then closed it should be

Asterix says to tyme:
However ... it does have to be known by the other party, outside the relationship .. that that is the case .. it wouldn’t be fair to them either if the couple weren't up front about it

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~ says to ~lolli~:
it takes two to cheat.. but a lot of times O/one doesn't know the person is with another..

Wraith{tyme} says to ~ L / lyrindia ~:
I believe one of the main problems we all face in an online relationship is the fact that we can't look em in the eye so to speak..so it seems to promote cheating because no one ever thinks they'll get busted

~lolli~ Owned by HB says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
Agreed, but sometimes they do find out.

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to Wraith:
*nods*... pressing my lips together... feeling it... very much so Sir...

Wraith{tyme}says to ~lolli~:
nope..everyone is equally guilty in a cheat crime..trying to make one more to blame than the other is splitting hairs..they were both there and awake..*Shrugs*

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to ~lolli~:
true but they lie to get out of it... a lot go by different names to cheat

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
You are right sometimes they don't, but at other times there are tags and collars, those that are married in r/t and it's very much known.

Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
which brings up another question really, i think we all know that many collars come and go too quickly, getting to know Yyour potential partner would likely help lesson the Velcros

Hobbes says to tyme:
I don't think one can "cheat" in a virtual relationship...one can lie..but one cannot "cheat" as that term is commonly understood...we sound like we're in junior high school when we use it...

~lolli~ Owned by HB says to mischevious delight (the ado...:
Nope.

~lolli~ Owned by HB says to Wraith:
I agree *nods*

The BodyGuard says to everyone:
I say be honest....why bother cheating its easier to say the truth then to follow a lie

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
Yes *nods* they make excuses, You are absolutely correct or use different names or sometimes even genders.

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
agreeing fully, do You think it the responsibility of the *3rd* for this occasion to take responsibility and ask both partners before playing? (03:15:00)

~angel~ says to Wraith:
I disagree...the one who is committed to the relationship is the guilty party...I may not think highly depending on the circumstances of the person they cheated with....but...down to brass tacks...only one of the two made a promise they broke

Wraith{tyme}says to Hobbes:
Makes sense..I suppose betray would be a better word than cheat

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to The BodyGuard:
T/those that lie.....generally get caught out in the long run....

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to The BodyGuard:
some subs are too submissive to tell their Dom/me...

The BodyGuard says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
your true, and if you have found your true one as I have why even consider it

Hobbes says to Wraith:
I would agree to betray....the fact is, one betrays a trust...assuming there has been an agreement the relationship be monogamous....

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to everyone:
and some just don't know how to voice their opinions... be themselves... been bashed on and molded to too many different ways... velcros are very easy... true and truthful are hard to find... and be comfortable with...

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to The BodyGuard:
~applauds~......exactly Sir....~s~

The BodyGuard says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
well they should be honest no matter what I say

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
so You don't think there is the expectation and often times the promise of being faithful to a relationship, just because it is a virtual one?

Wraith{tyme}says to ~angel~:
yes but that then let's the other person off the hook and why ?..because they have a higher moral standard because they aren't in a relationship ?...seems to Me that they would be more guilty because they din just say no or worse seduced the person in the active relationship..and then why ?..just to attempt to destroy said relationship ?

The BodyGuard says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
~LOL~ Brenda has trained me well ~LOL~

~angel~says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
that I cant agree with either..they are either adults and take full responsibility for their actions..or..well...that gives me an ick factor cuz it demeans subs really...on a maturity level

Asterix says to tyme:
No .. the '3rd' could ask the one they're playing with ... the problem arises online that its easy to hide a relationship. The worry I would also have is for the 3rd .. expecting more, then discovering the person in the relationship is committed

‡ dark muse ‡ says to ~lolli~:
and it's as devastating to the Oone finding out as it would be if it happened in a r/t relationship .....that's what i think S/some don't get .....that a Bbond here in v/t can have the same depth as one in r/t ..

Hobbes says to tyme:
as for vt, I am one of the minority...I feel virtual collars a conceit, worn for others and not for those in the relationship....there is nothing magical nor remarkable about a pair of brackets....and I seldom find them to be indicative of anything other than requited lust...

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to The BodyGuard:
she certainly has Sir.....*bravo to her*...~g~

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to The BodyGuard:
I had an online sub for quit a few years.. toward the end he also had another Domme and when She told Me,, he quick blocked Me and hasn't spoken to Me since..

The BodyGuard says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
~LOL~

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
devastating, hurtful and in some cases embarrassing, especially in a long term relationship

The BodyGuard says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
he needed his ass kicked by you and the other Domme in my opinion

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
i think that's the hurtful part ...the betrayal of trust ..

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to The BodyGuard:
I tried but was totally blocked.. he is with a totally different one now

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
and that does happen all too often here in VT where hiding is so very easy for so many

Asterix says to tyme:
Amen ...

Hobbes says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
I concur....you'll notice toy isn't collared...but our agreement is simple...I don't lie to her...

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to everyone:
tis only my opinion. whether r/t or v/t.....the parties involved know themselves well, if they are a player.....why even bother to accept the collar....

Wraith{tyme}says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
then he was not the proper subbie for You M'Lady

The BodyGuard says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
but the other Domme must think if he can do that to you and her.....he will keep doing it

Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
this from toy - there is a great disparity between r/t collars and v/t collars... does it make any sense at all, to even have v/t collars?

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to Wraith:
he was with Me for 8 years.. I wonder what else he was up to all those years that I never found out about..

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to everyone:
once trust is broken.....barriers go up, and it's difficult to trust again......

Wraith{tyme}says to tyme:
using the v/t collar to show a connection seems a good use of them

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to The BodyGuard:
maybe She doesn't care... I don't play games and don't expect any of My subs to do it

Wraith{tyme}says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
all he made You do in the end is question Yourself..that's the destructive part of the deal

The BodyGuard says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
and that’s the way it should be.......

~lolli~Owned by HB says to tyme:
I think it depends on the parties, the length of the relationship and the definition of their "vt" relationship. Is it strictly an online relationship or are there aspects of r/t with v/t as a social/entertainment network?

Asterix says to tyme:
I always went back and forth .. as I believe Hobbes said ... vt collars are as much as for someone else. The two involved already know their relationship (but I've gotten into fights about this with Mine ) ~s~

~angel~says to Wraith:
I didn’t say they had a higher moral standard...but...in my case...say R had an affair...and yes that can happen in an open or poly type situation..-l- I may not be real impressed with the other person..but I really don't care about their morals or feelings...they didn't lie to me..or break an agreement made

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
it matters little if it's worn for A/all to see or only worn in the heart .. i wore my collar proudly but it was what was in my heart that kept me from hurting Him.

toy (f) says to Wraith:
to show a connection to who?.....

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to Wraith:
nods... I didn't have a clue but when I found out ,, I saw what was going on... he preferred to be on msn with Me and not in the room... things like that

Wraith's tyme says to Wraith:
i agree but You knew that, but others don't

~angel~ says to Wraith:
sorry..-l- R decided right at that moment he needed something looked up

Wraith{tyme}says to ~angel~:
right..so what R fictitiously did would hurt you more..but still..they are both equally wrong for betraying your trust

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ~angel~:
But did they consider your feelings?

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
can i ask of You and Yours please......is it because Yyou take the collar itself as seriously as a wedding band that Yyou don't appreciate the VT use?

Wraith{tyme}says to toy (f):
to the Dom/me and or subbie

Hobbes says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
....but that is my point..it was not what you wore but what your heart knew....it was not the outward manifestation but the inner spirit that made it a "relationship"....

toy (f) says to Wraith:
no i meant .... who are you showing the connection to?

*Badboy* {c} says to ~casia{Bb}~:
*VBS*

Hobbes says to tyme:
There is no need...I know who she is....and what she is to me..she knows how I feel about her...there is no need to flaunt it for the sake of others....we are comfortable as we are....

Asterix says to Hobbes:
^5 That’s always been My point

~angel~ says to Wraith:
not in my mind...UNLESS..it was a damn good friend or family member...that person didn’t betray my trust...only he did...

The BodyGuard says to everyone:
gets a headache from thinking to much ~L~

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to everyone:
nods to the difficulties of trusting again after it's been broken to many times... even to the point of abandonment

Wraith{tyme}says to toy (f):
for Me I wear the tags to indicate My connection to tyme..she is My submissive and I am her Dom..saves answering a lot of questions about who is what and why..as we discovered when we went r/t and took the v/t collar off

~casia{Bb}~says to *Badboy* {c}:
~slips quietly to Your feet and listens, curling up~

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
i'm not disagreeing with You Sir .. i see Your point and understand it .. *s*

~andrea gail~says to Wraith:
what if the other woman didn't know?...what if she asked and he lied?...does that make her equally as responsible for her pain?

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
i do however believe it's arrogant to believe that E/everyone considers it flaunting ... *s*

~angel~says to ~lolli~:
I think differently I think...whether they considered my feelings or not..to me is not the issue...because I was not in a relationship with them...the only person I will be royally pissed at and hurt by..would be him

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to Hobbes:
i totally agree with Your comment Sir....~s~

Hobbes says to Wraith:
ahhhhh....but you underline the crucial difference between rt and vt...collars make sense in rt...they have meaning...here, they are less than nothing...a varsity letter jacket of sorts..to be shrugged on and off....

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
i think it is wonderful You and Yours have such an agreement that suits Yyou both, i think that is really the point of BDSM in general, all look for the Oones that suit their needs, that they can respect and enjoy.... each coupling being unique, like Yours and toys

Wraith{tyme}says to andrea gail:
in that case I would think the instigator of the deception is a shitheel and should be publically stoned at noon..*Nods*

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ~angel~:
I can understand your thinking *nods*

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
why do they have meaning in r/t but not v/t ?

Asterix says to Hobbes:
There are exceptions ... but on here .. .there are so many 'velcro' collars ...

~angel~says to andrea gail:
that in my mind would totally clear her...but..I'm odd..-g- ya already knew that -l-

~andrea gail~says to Wraith:
then we get to use the shoves and lye yes?...*S*

~andrea gail~says to Wraith:
shovels even

Wraith{tyme}says to Hobbes:
that's true of the velcro crowd..but some online have held collars for years and it means very much to them

~andrea gail~says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
good point

Asterix says to Wraith:
... and there are exceptions .. as you and tyme ...

Wraith{tyme}says to andrea gail:
nah why waste the effort..let em rot in the town square..a good reminder to all the others..*W*

*Badboy* {c} says to everyone:
I'd say in r/t especially in public the collar isn't needed...she's with Me...people can look and see that...she's right next to Me...touching or holding hands or at My feet...nothing extra is needed for anyone to see that we're together...on here...v/t....two can be together but someone that doesn't know...doesn't know...and won't know unless told...hence the "collar"...

Hobbes says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
I do not suggest all consider it flaunting...~s~..that is simply my opinion....and governs my actions...they have meaning in rt because there they do represent a commitment....here, they are the equivalent of "going steady"...~s~...I do not mean to cheapen the emotions which may be involved...but they represent a far lesser commitment than in the physical world..or so I believe....

Wraith{tyme} says to *Badboy* {c}:
r/t collars serve a function at play parties and other forms of BDSM gatherings..but I don't normally have tyme wear hers to the grocery store when we go..*S*

~andrea gail~says to *Badboy* {c}:
so it is for Oothers as well as for Yyou both

~andrea gail~says to ~casia{Bb}~:
hiya casia...*S*

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Hobbes:
thank You for sharing Your opinion..*s*

Wraith's tyme says to *Badboy* {c}:
that has certainly been my experience as well, though i do admit to adoring my time when leather adorns my neck , but that is personal, here in VT (when the collar means something to Bboth parties) is it also useful, beside the good feeling it holds

~andrea gail~says to Hobbes:
so You do not believe relationships here have as much meaning as one in r/t?

~casia{Bb}~says to Hobbes:
i guess i can see why You would have that opinion, Sir.....and i'll be honest....most of my experience online has led me to feel that way for a long long time, but.....i think it is what the two involved make of it, vt is a hunting ground for parasites.....and they tend to get more notice than the O/ones who make a full commitment out of it

*Badboy* {c} says to Wraith:
exactly....but then in r/t does her collar say "Wraith"? sure it could but I'm certain that many are not specific as such

~andrea gail~says to tyme:
and pride

toy (f) says to *Badboy* {c}:
so you're saying the collar is not for the Dom and sub v/t... but only as a sign to others?

~ L / lyrindia ~ says to Canadian Male:
Hey... smiles...

Hobbes says to andrea gail:
I think I said that collars have less meaning...not relationships....

~casia{Bb}~says to andrea gail:
hey sweetie, i didn't wanna disrupt....~smiles and winks~

*Badboy* {c} says to andrea gail:
yes I would say so

Wraith's tyme says to andrea gail:
that too *s*

~angel~says to tyme:
but then to it really just comes down to politely asking if someone’s involved...I don’t wear a wedding ring either...doesn’t make me any less committed...but I don’t think anything of people who do wear them....plus..-l- it goes back to honoring your commitments...wearing it means nothing if you don’t value the symbolism of it

~andrea gail~ says to Hobbes:
so You believe the relationships just as strong but not the possible symbol of them?

~casia{Bb}~says to tyme:
very true tyme, the times i put my collar on r/t gives me an amazing feeling, even with the distance between me and Bb

Wraith{tyme}says to *Badboy* {c}:
It has no writing on it at all..and needs none since as you say she is always close to my side and anyone looking would see the connection...here in v/t there is no visual and so we utilize the v/t tags to reflect the same as you would see in r/t

*Badboy* {c} says to tyme:
*nods* yes that leather around your neck means plenty

Hobbes says to ~casia{Bb}~:
Hello, pretty...~s~...and I agree..it is what those involved make of it...my problem is one of perception..I do not see that a collar is particularly meaningful in vt....or they would not be treated so casually as they are....

Wraith's tyme says to ~angel~:
and i think that is really the basic point, those that respect themselves, their partners and BDSM customs, those that don't, likely never will, no matter VT or RT

‡ dark muse ‡ says to everyone:
by S/some..

*Badboy* {c} says to toy (f):
no not only as a sign...but it's a big part of it sure...

Hobbes says to andrea gail:
The disconnect is that the symbol has been so thoroughly bastardized and cheapened that it has very little value...in my opinion...

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to Hobbes:
I think when the collars are treated casually its by players who could care less about bdsm..

~andrea gail~ says to Hobbes:
for those that treat them so casually....they do not mean anything...that doesn't mean that is true for A/all who wear them v/t though...*S*

~andrea gail~says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
~nods~

*Badboy* {c} says to Wraith:
*S* yes that is My point

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
agrees...~s~

~angel~says to ~casia{Bb}~:
there are just as many parasites in the rt part of it too tho....and while they cant simply change a name and an avatar..they are out there..because not everyone will speak up for various reasons....

*Badboy* {c} says to Hobbes:
*shrugs* there are many many people in r/t that take relationships that casually also...over 50% divorce rate right?

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
i think that is true, but is it wrong then, to Your thinking, to promote what is good and was at one time meaningful to many, is it wrong to say that here, we will honor the values we desire to promote...?

~casia{Bb}~says to Hobbes:
~winks~.....hello, Sir.....and very true....the v/t collar has become something that has a negative tone to it.....because of all the games involved around them by T/those that haven't a clue.....~shrugs softly~.....but....mine both v/t and r/t mean the world to me, i'm quite proud to wear His name and collar....i'm not saying that one who chooses to not wear the symbol is any less joyful at being someone's submissive.....this is just my personal perspective on it, in my case now, it's an extension of my r/t collar, the way i see it

Wraith{tyme}says to Hobbes:
Agrees there is a group that treats collars as accoutrements for their latest fad...and thus is why we attempt to keep that particular group out of the Edge..they sully what we do here and really have no place in this lifestyle

Hobbes says to andrea gail:
I didn't suggest that....~s~..if it is meaningful for the two, so be it....

*Badboy* {c} says to ~casia{Bb}~:
and if I hadn't planned on placing that collar around your neck in person....I wouldn't have done it here in v/t either...

~casia{Bb}~says to ~angel~:
yes.....it just seems vt they get more 'spotlight' time then r/t.....course, i have no issue spouting about the ones i know r/t either lol

Hobbes says to *Badboy* {c}:
Perhaps so..but that is not the question before us...~s~...the issue was, is a vt collar worthwhile?..does it have value and meaning?...and with respect t marriage, I doubt many get married and divorced quite so quickly as vt collars are traded in...

Canadian Male says to everyone:
but some of Yyou need to understand that as a new person around. it is very hard to meet someone and get to know them. and sometimes people get caught up in the being with another, before getting to know them too well.

Hobbes says to tyme:
It is never wrong to promote a positive value...but neither is it wrong to reject the construct of a virtual collar as the penultimate on an online BDSM relationship...~s~...

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to everyone:
greetings to T/those who entered....~s~

*Badboy* {c} says to Hobbes:
oh I would think that if people could just e-mail the courthouse and they'd be divorced...you'd see plenty of that as well...

Wraith{tyme}says to everyone:
what I think we should really create for online is the practice collar..like a lend lease...the velcro collar version 2.0...everyone will know you both are just test driving a BDSM relationship and if the collar comes off no harm no foul...and then if it does actually work out for the two...a real collar can be set in place..that way we can all tell what's going on

Asterix says to *Badboy* {c}:
Some states its almost that .. $300 dollars does it or so

~andrea gail~ says to Hobbes:
v/t "velcro" collars....those people do not care about them here nor would they care any more r/t..*S*

Hobbes says to *Badboy* {c}:
It might be so...~s~.perhaps one day we'll find out..

~angel~says to Canadian Male:
take your time..it's not hard..it's just not quick..talk..talk..n more talk....go beyond sex to see if your compatible

~andrea gail~says to Canadian Male:
it is not difficult to "talk" to another and get to know them

~softee~ says to everyone:
~has chatted for 12 years and has yet to accept a vt collar~

~lolli~Owned by HB says to ~angel~:
*nods in agreement*

Hobbes says to Wraith:
But there's the rub...if it's truly a meaningful symbol, it can't possibly be 'no harm, no foul'....

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to andrea gail:
bravo boootiful...~s~

~lolli~Owned by HB says to andrea gail:
to you too *L*

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~ says to Wraith:
there is such a thing--- collar of consideration

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
i think some people enjoy a bdsm room where there are topics on the subject discussed, scenes on occasion, and yes, even collarings between those who have taken the time, and have made their commitments..... it is basically a RP room where all our characters are based on something of interest, BDSM

Canadian Male says to ~angel~:
yes I agree. but if you get that far and decide to be together

~casia{Bb}~ says to Canadian Male:
but, Sir.....when people do that, they forget the feelings on the other side......Bb and i both had to take steps back a lot in the beginning, reminding ourselves and each other we were still very new to each other, that it really hadn't been that long, still occasionally we do that......its called being responsible for yourself.....it is easy to get caught up, i know i have before.....but trust me, the fall to reality hurts just as much, it is better to go slow, VT is not the fast track to love ever after, its something that should be taken slow if you want to take it seriously

Hobbes says to tyme:
Clearly that is the case..for here we are...~g~....

~andrea gail~says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
~shrugs~...i do it all the time...how else can you know?....*S*

Wraith's tyme says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
there was a small point about those other types of collars in the class portion, let me grab it *s*

~casia{Bb}~says to Wraith:
~tilts her head softly~....hello, Sir.....like the 'training' collars of old?

Wraith{tyme}says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
in that case does the collar of consideration work just like a regular collar of collaring ?..same rules apply ?..if so it is the same

Wraith's tyme says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
Now, back to the collars and the respect for them; first, lets look at VT collars. They are verging on being a joke.
Consideration collars,
protection collars,
Velcro collars,
jeezus!

As far as consideration collars, come on! If you don't know that you want to spend time with one, taking the time to get to know them, letting them get to know you, then please, don't waste the leather. If talking to them about everything under the sun isn't interesting them enough to keep them around then some name on them just isn't going to either.

Protection collar? What is the point? To protect? From who? More to the point, how? How is a capped name going to protect anyone from anything online?

We are all presumably adults and know where the Squelch is if someone is annoying us. We know how to close a window with that little X up there at the top of the screen. Those things, those technical things, are all the protection we are likely to need. If you have trouble on a site with a relentless stalker, then who you want help from, is a site mod or administrator. One that can grab an IP, trace it, involve the authorities if need be or simply ban the offender, because truly, some capped name coming to the rescue to throw insults across a chat room is worthless, as well as annoying to watch and disruptive to an entire room.

Velcro collars, well we all know what those are, those are generally for one or two reasons, one, sexually aroused and feeling is the real deal, mistaking craving someone sexually for a genuine connection and/or two, loneliness, and at the time that need to be connected is overwhelming. Neither being cyber-sex starved or loneliness is a good reason for a collar. This is why they generally only last till the newness wears off or the need is fulfilled and one or both are seeing clearly again and realize that this person is not who they thought they were.

~andrea gail~says to Canadian Male:
but you have to take the time to get that far

Hobbes says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
When you can have a 'collar of consideration', I believe we irretrievably cheapen the idea of the collar as anything meaningful...

Wraith's tyme says to ~Mistress Fantasy~:
Then there are the scary collars. This collaring can be most dangerous. Both emotionally as well as physically IF the two decide to meet RT and even if they don't sometimes. Sometimes this collaring is very deceptive and in end can be devastating. If the Dominant is actually not one but is someone that is just here to fill some void in His/Her RT world or someone who is here simply because they lack control in their RT lives and think they have found a gold mine of potential partners that listen or even worse, a person who seeks to control for the sake of hurting someone physically to get their rocks off. This person calling themselves a Dominant can cause real harm to their victims.

Then there is the one saying they are a submissive, who hopefully isn't just some insecure needy individual calling themselves submissive to hide the truth. The truth that they are just a mentally unstable person who craves attention, in the form of humiliation and physical pain, but not because it makes them feel whole and healthy or even sexually aroused, but because they don't think they deserve any better, they think they are unlovable, unwanted, unattractive in any and perhaps all ways, they are the doormat. They feel they have nothing to offer, yet they are seeking to be special to someone and very often, the only ones they will attract are those Dominants described above, not a genuine Dominant.

These descriptions are not of Dominants and submissives;
these are mentally unstable people who need to seek counseling not a chat room.

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to Wraith:
if it doesn't work out then both walk away..

Wraith's tyme says to Hobbes:
smiles.... enjoying that fact

Wraith{tyme}says to ~casia{Bb}~:
hello casia nice to see you again...and training collars were only used for training purposes..they were never meant to show anything more than a student /teacher relationship

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to andrea gail:
you're always open and honest booootiful...be it in the room publically or when we've chatted privately....~s~

~lolli~Owned by HB says to The BodyGuard:
Night *S*

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Man Just Looking:
Welcome to the discussion part of tonight's lesson on "Respecting the collar" , Sir..

Canadian Male says to andrea gail:
but like Wraith is saying, if you do get to know them, and want to try it, and if it goes wrong after that, then is looks velcro. but behind the scenes perhaps they e mail and msn everyday.

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~says to tyme:
very informative... thanks...

Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
5 minutes remaining should anyOone wish to make any last points and Yyou can find a copy of this Discussion shortly on the UofN link *s*

~andrea gail~ says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
yeah...my memory is not good enough to lie....lol

layla says to Wraith:
thank you, Sir

~casia{Bb}~says to Wraith:
i guess my thinking was more along the lines of what the Lady said, Sir....'Collar of Consideration"

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Canadian Male:
then don't put it on to begin with ...? ....just take the time to get to know each Oother ...

Wraith{tyme}says to everyone:
My final point I make shall be...I am right and everyone else is wrong..*Smarmy grin*

~Mistress Fantasy~ ~gray~ ~Owner of OWW~ says to Hobbes:
I agree... I have never used one.. either there is a real collar or not..

~andrea gail~says to Canadian Male:
You don't do it in a day or a week....take the time...talk talk and more talk and in a few weeks if it's not there or it's not right....it's not going to be...*shrugs*

Man Just Looking says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
smiles g'evening to you ... sounds like I missed an interesting topic

~andrea gail~says to Canadian Male:
that's just me though

Wraith's tyme says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
which is exactly my point

Asterix says to tyme:
Good points

Canadian Male says to ~angel~:
and we all know the velcro collar addicts, who have one tag one week and then another another week. those people don’t respect it

~casia{Bb}~says to Wraith:
~just chuckles softly~.....i have missed that arrogance, Sir....~winks~

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to andrea gail:
neither is mine...~lol~

*Badboy* {c} says to Wraith:
yea yea yea *L*

~andrea gail~says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
*nods*

Canadian Male says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
and just remain, friends?

Wraith{tyme}says to ~casia{Bb}~:
It's part of Me nature..*W*

Wraith's tyme says to Asterix:
thank You *s*

Hobbes says to Wraith:
Except when we disagreed, you were entirely correct, sir....~g~...

‡ dark muse ‡ says to tyme:
yes i know ...*s*

~lolli~Owned by HB says to Wraith:
Yes Mr. W *salutes* *L*

~andrea gail~says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
i add the brutal sometimes..lol

~lolli~Owned by HB says to andrea gail:
weeks? sometimes it takes much longer then that as well *S*

Wraith{tyme}says to Hobbes:
Luckily We so rarely disagree Sir..and then only for the sake of a good argument..*Bows*

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to everyone:
why bother with all the consideration collars. as muse stated....get to know O/one another first....take time to be really sure this is what Y/you wish....

~andrea gail~says to ~lolli~:
yes but if in a few weeks it does not feel right...it's not going to...ever...that's just my opinion...why waste more time trying to make something fit that doesn't?

*Badboy* {c} says to ~casia{Bb}~:
*pets you and hooks My finger in your collar* think it's time for bed baby girl

~andrea gail~ says to ~lolli~:
if it's right..take all the time in the world...*S*

~lolli~Owned by HB says to andrea gail:
I agree, very much so *S*

~casia{Bb}~says to *Badboy* {c}:
~trembles and purrrssss softly, tilting her head back as Your take hold of her collar~.....yes, Master

Wraith{tyme}says to ~casia{Bb}~:
come back soon casia..dream well darlin..*S*

Hobbes says to Wraith:
Indeed, Sir...~returns the bow~...I always enjoy our conversations much....

Standard Issue's {tamlyn} says to andrea gail:
ohhhh.....you do....at times...~grins & winks~

~andrea gail~says to Standard Issue's {tamlyn}:
yes...well....i told ya'll if you don't really want to know...don't ask me...lol

‡ dark muse ‡ says to Canadian Male:
It took close to a year of getting to know each Oother before i accepted a collar or was considered suited to have it offered... in that time i talked with Him exclusively... Wwe cybered ...Wwe had phone sex ....Wwe laughed .... Wwe learned each Oother. ...slapping a collar on someone so Yyou can enjoy all of those things i stated isn't what the collar is about ...at least in my opinion.

~angel~says to Canadian Male:
so skip the collar....why do you need that to be committed in the beginning stages of a relationship?...either you commit and things progress to a agreed upon arrangement...or..they don't..and both go their separate ways...a collar doesn't make it more anything

Canadian Male says to ‡ dark muse ‡:
nods. and I agree. exclusive can be done without the collar, which I think a lot of people confuse. if not collar then they are not exclusive. which I think someone touched on before. I think more people should just be exclusive as a tag, no name, no formality, just exclusive. then everyone would know

~angel~says to Canadian Male:
you can be exclusive and yet not wear a collar....-s- in bdsm..I have been for 8 months....

Wraith's tyme says to everyone:
thank Yyou, A/all of Yyou that made tonight's class and discussion so informative *s* copies, pastes, goes to print!